Bring your Tigers football, basketball and recruiting questions, and talk to Eli Hoff in a live chat at 11 a.m. Thursday.
Transcript
Eli Hoff:ÌýHowdy all, and happy Thursday! Thanks for coming by this week's Mizzou chat. Feel free to drop any questions or takes you want to air out over the next couple of hours. Let's see what you've got!
µþ±ð±ð»å³Ü²ú:ÌýI like Mizzou's potential this year, but so far they've been their own worst enemy ... especially when it comes to penalties -- defensive penalties that extend the other teams' drives, offensive penalties that puts them in long unmanageable situations, hot head penalties (i.e., namely Luther Burden) that serve no purpose ... How can Drink clean these up? ... as much of these dumb penalties are based on emotion and reacting with "uncalled for anger" in the spur of the momentÌý
Hoff:ÌýIt's definitely a concern, and I don't think it's fishing for negativity to say that it could be a problem down the road. The defense avoided penalties altogether during the first two games, but when the flags popped up against BC, you're right, it extended drives. The offense getting into a 2nd and 59-sized hole is unlikely to ever happen again — have you ever seen that before? — but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
I think Drinkwitz can handle and is handling the Burden penalties. He chewed Burden out on the sideline, and Drinkwitz told us the other day that Burden looked him in the eyes and said "yes, sir." Drinkwitz took that as Burden understanding that those flags just cannot happen.
Illegal formation-type penalties are also on the coaching staff. They need to be spotting that and avoiding that — or if it comes down to it, use helmet comms to get word into Brady Cook (if there are more than 15 seconds on the play clock). False starts and holds and defensive penalties will just happen. Frankly, I'm not sure they're as much of a problem if the "stupid" stuff gets cleaned up.
Evil Calvin:ÌýIs Burden going to get involved finally? Doesn't even remotely look like a 'Heisman' candidate.
Hoff:ÌýFirst, let's be clear: Burden isn't a Heisman candidate. He needed to have gaudy numbers to even have a chance, and the best opportunities to do that have likely come and gone. That doesn't diminish him as a player, it's just the reality of that award. It takes a perfect season and then some.
BenFred wrote a good column about the importance of getting Burden involved more. If the offense stalls, like it did for a bit against Boston College, it seems wide to feed him the ball. Sometimes, you have to manufacture touches for your stars. Look at how the game-breaking wideouts are used in the NFL. None of us (I think) are qualified to tell Kirby Moore how to call his offense, but that seems like a core tenet that you'd expect to be in place.Ìý
c_good:ÌýWhat happened to Brady Cook's deep ball? Last year, I thought it was a strength--and an impressive one at that. High arc, dropped right where it needed to be. Distance was shorter than NFL deep balls, but it looked to me like, well, a mini version of a great NFL deep ball.
Hoff:ÌýIt's still there, and it's not a strength issue. Most of his misses on the deep shots have been overthrows. It seems more like a timing or footwork problem. Drinkwitz diagnosed it as the latter after Week 1 — Cook was a little too bouncy, it seemed — but the connection hasn't returned even after it was an emphasis.
From a touch standpoint, I can tell you that that was an emphasis during Tuesday's practice. I watched several minutes of Cook lofting the ball "into the bread basket" for receivers in the end zone with a defender intentionally draped on them. Most of the incompletions in that drill were drops from the wideouts. Like you mention, the fact that Cook can make these throws is undeniable since he showed it last year, it's just about getting two or three of them to pop in a game. Maybe it's only a matter of time.
c_good:ÌýDoes it seem weird to you at all that, since arriving at Mizzou, Burden has been used primarily on screen passes, reverses, and the like? I get that broken tackles and RAC are strengths of his, but presumably he has others, too. I worry a bit that 1) he's a legitimate candidate to make it to the NFL and represent Mizzou well, Ã la Jeremy Maclin, but 2) he's mostly being used in somewhat-gimmicky college plays and won't be taken seriously as a route runner. He breaks SEC tackles, but he's no Tavon Austin, and Tavon Austin's career never took off in the way it might have.
Hoff:ÌýI don't think I'd say it's weird. I just mentioned how important it is to manufacture touches for Burden because of how dangerous he is with the ball in his hands, and the usage you mention is a good way to do that. NFL teams still call that stuff. Look at Deebo Samuel, for example.Ìý
Your point about Burden being taken seriously as a route-runner is interesting. I can't say I've delved deep into NFL Draft scouting reports yet, but you're right that Burden isn't known as a sharp route runner. I don't think that means he isn't one, but I hadn't really thought of it through that lens yet. I'll keep an eye on it over the next couple games and then be able to give you a better answer to that part of your question. Maybe scheme — there are a lot of flood concepts that come up in Mizzou's pass game — plays a role too.
c_good:ÌýRe: Burden, route-running, and downfield targets: Could also be a product of Mizzou's deep receiver corps. There are only so many touches to go around. Your point about manufacturing touches for Burden is a good way to put it. I think my main takeaway is that it seems most of Burden's touches are manufactured.
Hoff:ÌýIt certainly could be, especially with coverage emphases for opposing defenses. I feel like I notice Theo Wease Jr and Mookie Cooper "getting open" in between zones or defenders more than Burden — probably because other teams are tracking Burden closely and more likely to let the other guys slip into gaps. Just a theory, but I feel like it makes sense.
jwvl:ÌýEli, I'm so annoyed at the national media on how many called this a close game with BC. I was there and never felt this win was in jeopardy. Am I being pollyannaish?
Hoff:ÌýKeep this in mind: There probably aren't too many national folks who watched all of this game. There certainly weren't any at the stadium. So if you saw, in a vacuum, a one-score game and that BC was leading for parts of it, you'd probably think it was close. And maybe you can safely call any one-score game that had teams in control at different times close to some degree.
I didn't feel it was in jeopardy either. I had my story written for it to be a win and didn't feel a panicked need to adjust it after the Eagles got back within a score. ESPN's win probability never dipped below 86% for Mizzou in the second half. Take all that for what you want.
Tiggggerfan:ÌýSo, Georgia beats Kentucky at Kentucky and MizZou beats a ranked BC fairly handily. Then, Texas and Tennessee both run up the score VS Texas-San Antonio and Kent State and they both jump up in the AP rankings. Is that what it comes down to with the AP? Beat up a nobody (in typical Josh Heupel fashion) and get rewarded by the AP! Help me understand this one Eli.
Hoff:ÌýFirst, I'm not an AP voter and frankly don't want to be one, so I don't speak for any balloting decisions. Georgia and Texas were ahead of Mizzou already so I'll ignore them and focus on the aspect of Tennessee leapfrogging Mizzou.
I thought the Tigers would actually come out ahead in the poll. I wasn't sure how many people would feel good demoting a team that just picked up a ranked win. But I guess enough were. That's the only hang-up I had. I think it's totally fine to have Tennessee ranked ahead of Missouri right now, and I know y'all probably don't want to hear that.
But look at it this way: Mizzou has played an FCS team, a MAC team and the then-No. 24 team in the country at home. Those scores were 51-0, 38-0 and 27-21.
Tennessee has played an FCS team, a MAC team and the then-No. 24 team on the road. Those scores were 69-3, 71-0 and 51-10.Ìý
Both programs have played remarkably similar schedules, with the biggest difference being Tennessee's ranked win being on the road. The Vols won each of those games in more dominant fashion. If you're going to rank teams based on results, Tennessee should be ahead of Mizzou? Could that/will that/should that change? Probably. But right now, the Vols have shown more. I understand the timing of the polling flip being weird, but not the result — that makes sense.Ìý
Lu:ÌýI don't want to take credit for this discover as I read it on another message board, but what do you think the probability of Brady Cook successfully petitioning for another year of eligibility?
If I'm not mistaken the NCAA recently passed a rule that allows bowl games to not count toward your 4 games of a red shirt season. In theory, couldn't Brady petition the NCAA to retroactively apply that rule to his 2021 season (where his fifth game played was the armed forces). So his 2021 season would be his red shirt season and 2020 would just be his COVID year.
Certainly, there's two major obstacles here:
1. Brady has to want to do this
2. NCAA has to approve it
I suppose my question would be whether you think NCAA might approve something like this. Who knows where Brady's heads at.
Hoff:ÌýYou're right, and it's an interesting discovery regardless of who put it together. I think the technicality is that postseason games of any form don't count toward the redshirt limit anymore, but bowl games are where that's going to come up the most.
It does seem that Cook could petition to get this modified retroactively for another year of eligibility, and you're right on with the two core questions. Obviously, we don't have precedent to look at with this particular rule, so it's tough to know how the NCAA would weigh in. The only similar situation that immediately jumps to mind is Taulia Tagovailoa, who petitioned the NCAA for another year this past offseason. He had a couple games at Alabama where he only played two snaps, I think, but that was enough to burn a redshirt. I don't think a bowl game was involved, but I could be wrong. He had the backing of Nick Saban in requesting a waiver but the NCAA turned him down. Different circumstances, but that does jump to mind.
In all honesty, the bigger question is probably whether Cook would want to do that. It's a little too early to be thinking too much about NFL stock and such, but that seems like it'll be an option. He's been around Mizzou for a while, and sometimes players just want to take that next step. Not everybody wants to be an old college player. But we'll see. It's interesting and will be something I ask folks about as those decisions come closer.
Jeremy:ÌýI realize we're new into the SEC injury reporting requirement but are there actually consequences for fudging those reports? I'm not thinking about betting, rather about giving false information to opposing teams about availability. "Gamesmanship." Drinkwitz has played coy in the past but maybe coaches can't do that now?
Hoff:ÌýAlong with the gambling aspect, getting rid of the gamesmanship is part of this too. There are penalties in place: Fines for the program that start at $25,000 and could go up to $100,000 for inaccurate reporting. I'm sure that would take an investigation and perhaps be hard to actually enforce, but the mechanism is there.
I also get the sense that the coaches aren't really the ones handling this, especially for the non-gameday injury reports. Drinkwitz initially suggested he'd delegate the duty to an assistant or someone on the training staff. That probably removes some of the gamesmanship from it. And when it's the coaches making gameday calls, there isn't really a point to gamesmanship: By that stage, the opponent has prepared for whomever they've prepared for and you can tell who's a go or not based on who dresses and who's in warm-ups.
DCG:ÌýWhat's your take on the O-Line so far? Off to great start with the running game, pass protection has been good, but also, again, a lot of penalties. But might they end up as a better line than last year's?
Hoff:ÌýRun blocking has been excellent. The O-line made the outside zone reads easy last game and has really been making space around the goal line, which is important. I actually don't think the pass protection has been all that good. Cook was pressured eight times against Boston College. It felt like the Eagles were winning the line of scrimmage a lot in pass pro situations. Now, they have some good D-linemen and edge rushers, but so do a lot of other teams in the SEC. I'm not going to sit here and say it was bad, but it wasn't really where I expected it to be.
There were quite a few penalties with last year's line too — Connor Tollison and Cam'Ron Johnson in particular, if you include snapping issues as a penalty of sorts. Not that penalties are acceptable, but they are to a degree part of any O-line.Ìý
Beating last year's O-line will be tough. Javon Foster and Xavier Delgado were so solid. It think this year's group will be more balanced. The split between runs to the left and right is already looking much more even than last year, when Mizzou heavily favored going left. Green and Bryant working together is still new, so I think the jury's out still. Health will also be a factor — last year's starting group was intact for every single game. Already, Johnson has missed a game this season. It wasn't a problem, but that will dictate how good this group ends up being.Ìý
Groucho:ÌýAm I the only one who thinks Drew Pine threw a prettier spiral? Not trying to denigrate Cook, but I wish Pine would get more opportunities.Ìý
Hoff:ÌýI haven't been around the Mizzou program for long, but I get the sense that y'all, as a fanbase, have spent a while admiring backup quarterbacks' spirals. My freshman year in the journalism school was Odom's last year, so I got used to the rhythm of backups taking over midseason there for a bit. Pyne got the looks I think he earned in those first two games. You still need to give Cook opportunities to get in rhythm, and that's a far, far, far bigger priority than getting your backup game reps. There should be another opportunity against UMass. And assuming Pyne sticks around, he'll have the QB competition for next season to show things off.
Groucho:ÌýHow is Tyler Macon doing? Where did he end up?
Hoff:ÌýHe is now at Alcorn State in the SWAC. It doesn't look like he's the starter there, but as appeared in all three games. He has completed 6 of 12 passes for 18 yards and thrown two interceptions. I don't think that counts as doing well, which is too bad to see.Ìý
Lu:ÌýI've spent way too much time going through the potential College Football Playoff scenarios. Part of the reason this year has been so much fun as a Mizzou fan is having such a vested interest in the games going on around the country. Two questions:
1. Have you come up with any galaxy brain scenarios? Mine is Tennessee, Ole Miss, Alabama, and Mizzou all going 11-1. I guess you have to put all of them in, right? Plus Texas and Georgia? that could get real weird
2. Certainly Alabama would be our "best loss," after that who would be the next best loss in your opinion? at A&M maybe?
Thanks for the coverage on the first one by the way. Loved that article about the time to throw. It was fascinating to hear Brady's take on the data you pulled together.
Hoff:ÌýI'm glad to see that Mizzou fans are enjoying the CFP aspect of this season. I'm not going to tell you how to be a fan, but that seems like the fun/novel part of what 2024 is shaping up to be.
I also, in all honesty, haven't kept that close an eye on it. Once we're in the season, I'm writing every single day, going to availabilities/the game, reporting out a feature every week and trying to keep you up to date with everything happening around the games. That doesn't give me the time I'd need to really pore over all the CFP cases. I probably will during the bye next week to write an update on how things are looking for Missouri.
That said, there are two core principles to how everything aside from Mizzou winning its games could help MU. If you want to have Mizzou-related things to cheer for in other games, I'd use this:
1. You want any team on the Tigers' schedule to win. Every bit of strength/resume-padding helps. Yes, this includes Oklahoma against Tennessee this weekend.
2. You want Big 12 and ACC teams (and Notre Dame) to lose a whole lot. Both those conferences are getting a team each into the CFP. You don't want it to be more than that, so you want the runners-up in each conference to be weak. Notre Dame losing again would probably ice that particular cake. This is the recipe for the SEC being able to get 5 teams into the CFP.
I'll look into this more next week, but I think that's still the general case for right now. Glad you liked today's piece on Cook — he had some really interesting insight when I asked him about what I'd seen in the numbers.
Jeremy:ÌýBefore the season started I heard an interview with "SEC Mike" on Rock M who said that (blue chip type) transfers generally do not have an outsized impact until their 2nd year with the team. Obviously it depends on the position, but O-line is a great example where the guys have to learn to work together as well as learn the system and schemes. So he thought Mizzou looked very good, but he put less stock in the portal than other observers. I mention this because it comports with what we've seen from Mizzou's left side. Also recall that Johnson missed a game so at one point they had 2 transfers plus a backup in. A shaky O-line is what doomed Drinkwitz's earlier seasons and I'm a little nervous to see them get abused in SEC play. On the plus side Cook has all the experience in the world to deal with that, per Eli's story earlier today about his release times.
Hoff:ÌýI can see that effect with transfers, generally, but I think expectation is part of it. Mizzou didn't expect Theo Wease Jr. to be an All-SEC wideout last year, and he wasn't, but he certainly hit on what they did want from him. Marcus Bryant on the O-line doesn't have the luxury of multiple years to make an impact at Missouri — this is his final season. So in that case, that two-year pattern can't really play out. But Cayden Green can develop with the Tigers. It's all situational. I don't think there's reason to panic over the O-line. They should get better as the season gets tougher. Just a matter of whether that's actually how it trends.
DCG:ÌýAny sense that Blake Baker might be feeling some buyer's remorse? LSU is not good. They shouldn't be in the top 25, the D hasn't been particularly good, and Brian Kelly will throw everyone under the bus before taking accountability.
Hoff:ÌýI'll be honest: The only bit of LSU football I've watched this year was their opener against USC, and even then, I had a fantasy football draft at the same time. On Saturdays now, I maybe have time to catch part of an 11 a.m. kickoff or the back end of a late night game at most, depending on Mizzou's schedule, so I really don't watch any other college football than Missouri and its next opponent, which I watch after the fact.Ìý
If LSU is a letdown this year — whether missing the CFP is enough to constitute that, I don't know — is Kelly on a very hot seat or gone? Y'all can estimate that better than I can. But if so, it would probably mean a short stint in Baton Rouge for Baker.
Lu:ÌýSounds like you probably haven't had much time to dig into the new video game either. Sort of a two birds one stone situation when you pick that up.
Hoff:ÌýI played it pretty heavily when it came out to get excited for this season, and I've run a couple of dynasties into the future. From what I saw in those, the simulation engine for CFP fields was a little, um,Ìýcreative, so I'm not sure how much of a baseline it's given me. And one of those dynasties was me reverting conferences to what they were like when I was a kid, so it's not even a great indicator.Ìý
I need to brush up my skills in the game, though. I played Jarod Hamilton from PowerMizzou on it the other day and... it was ugly. Need to hit the PlayStation practice field badly!
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